Gates Contradicts Bush, Says ‘I Don’t Know’ If 2002 War Authorization Is Still Valid
During today’s Senate Armed Services Committee hearing, Defense Secretary Robert Gates says he doesn’t know whether the 2002 resolution authorizing force in Iraq is still valid, acknowledging that his view differs with that of President Bush.
During his questioning of Gates, Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV) noted that the authorization listed two purposes for the use of force: 1) to defend the United States against Saddam Hussein and 2) enforce U.N. resolutions against Hussein’s government. Byrd asked Gates, since Hussein’s government no longer exists, “do you agree that this authorization no longer applies to the ongoing conflict in Iraq?”
Gates responded: “I think the honest answer, Senator Byrd, is that I don’t know the answer to that question.” Gates admitted that his answer contradicts that of the President, who believes the resolution “still continues to authorize the actions that we are taking in Iraq.”
Watch it:
Byrd and Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) have announced legislation “that would require the president to seek a reauthorization from Congress to extend the military effort in Iraq beyond October 11, 2007.”
Transcript:
BYRD: Secretary Gates, the 2002 authorization to use force in Iraq authorized the president to use force for two purposes. The first was to defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq. Let me read that again, now.
The first was defend the national security of the United States, quote, against the continuing threat posed by Iraq, close quote.
The second was to, quote, enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions against Iraq, close quote.
Since the government of Iraq that is referred to in the resolution no longer exists, having been replaced by a democratically elected one, do you agree — do you agree that this authorization no longer applies to the ongoing conflict in Iraq?
GATES: I think the honest answer, Senator Byrd, is that I don’t know the answer to that question.
BYRD: That’s being honest.
Therefore, if you don’t know the answer — how does it apply if you don’t know the answer?
GATES: Well, sir, my impression is that it’s the view of the president that it still continues to authorize the actions that we are taking in Iraq.
BYRD: All right.
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He will veto it. Lil Bush has his toys and he’s not letting anyone take them away from him.
Comment by Crump's Brother — May 9, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
F*cking murderers. They all should be hung.
Comment by Juan C — May 9, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
Wow! Looks like we have a traitor for Defense Secretary. It must be getting hard to find good help these days.
Comment by VerbalKint — May 9, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
Ya know, you really have to grudgingly admit you admire Gates’ forthrightness in these matters, considering the henchmen around him.
Comment by Badmoodman — May 9, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
Is this one of those unknown knowns? Or is this a known unknown?
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party — May 9, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
Will Chimpy gather the nads he would need to fire Sec Def Gates?
Heh.
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
Why does the Secretary of Defense hate our troops?
Comment by Crump's Brother — May 9, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
Byrd forgot to drink his kool-aid today.
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party — May 9, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
Is it possible that this administration has hired someone whose first reflex isn’t to lie and then lie some more?! Didn’t he sign his oath of lying, I mean loyalty?
Comment by margaret — May 9, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
#8…OOPS! I meant to say Gates!
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party — May 9, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
Congress should take the next step of implementing a little bit of reality - if Bush wants his funding without a timetable, then the Iraq spending bill should include and ACTIVATION OF THE SELECTIVE SERVICE.
You can’t ask the same soldiers to stay in the battlefield longer and longer. If we need more people, for a longer time, then we need more people.
Watch how fast Bush Impeachment gathers support then.
Comment by DM — May 9, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
impeachment is the ONLY answer. the USA is bigger than bush will ever be and can EASILY take it and should. its the ONLY way to gain the worlds respect… sometimes doing the RIGHT not REICH thing is hard.
Comment by chimpeachment looms — May 9, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
The look on Robert Gates’ face says it all. He looks like he hates his job and I’d say there’s a good chance that Bush and him do not even speak.
On the other hand, it seriously looks like Robert Byrd’s aides are pulling his strings like a puppet.
Comment by Elliot — May 9, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
‘Byrd asked Gates, since Hussein’s government no longer exists, “do you agree that this authorization no longer applies to the ongoing conflict in Iraq?”’
ThinkProgress quotes a former member of the Ku Klux Klan?????
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
Gates must have misled the administration when it vetted him for the job. They would never have willingly appointed anyone who has shown as much independence as we have seen from Gates.
Comment by VerbalKint — May 9, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
I am extremely pleased that the idea of declaring the authorization of force against Iraq no longer valid is getting some legs. It makes sense to do so because the reasons that might have once been valid certainly are not now so continued occupation is not called for under the previous authorization. And it is unlikely that justification for continued occupation could be presented.
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) — May 9, 2007 @ 12:58 pm
Ya know, you really have to grudgingly admit you admire Gates’ forthrightness in these matters, considering the henchmen around him.
I second that notion. It was refreshing to hear a Sec Def who just wants to do his job the best he can, but understand that the Congress also has a job to do. I am not a supporter of the surge because I believe it is too little too late. But I am becoming a supporter or at least have a sense of trust when it comes to the new Sec Def and I am willing to give him a chance.
Comment by JONWASH — May 9, 2007 @ 12:58 pm
ThinkProgress quotes a former member of the Ku Klux Klan?????
Comment by Exley
____________________________________________
ThinkProgress allows former zygotes to post?????
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) — May 9, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
Gates is all right. He’s that rarest of oddities - a Republican officeholder who thinks that doing his job effectively is more important than his party’s political fortunes.
Comment by joe — May 9, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
“ThinkProgress quotes a former member of the Ku Klux Klan?????”
Sure. People change.
For example, most of the intellectuals behind neoconservatism used to be Communists - and a lot more recently than Byrd was a Klansman.
Comment by joe — May 9, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
Here is the symbol for Orange Juice ” OJU7 “depicting screaming
I N F L A T I O N. Paid $ 2.10 for a gallon of Tropicana on 11/2001, now paying $ 6.99 for the same gallon of juice.
http://charts3.barchart.com/ chart.asp?vol=Y&jav=adv&grid=Y&org=stk&sym=OJU7&data=H&code=BSTK&evnt=adv
Here is the symbol for GOLD ” GCQ7 “, depicting screaming
I N F L A T I O N.
http://charts3.barchart.com/ chart.asp?vol=Y&jav=adv&grid=Y&org=stk&sym=GCQ7&data=H&code=BSTK&evnt=adv
Here is the symbol for the US DOLLAR, ” DXU7 “depicting a screaming loss of 33 percent of its value.
http://charts3.barchart.com/ chart.asp?vol=Y&jav=adv&grid=Y&org=stk&sym=DXU7&data=H&code=BSTK&evnt=adv
Here is the symbol for the Crude Oil Chart, ” CLU7 ” notice the extreme low prices and the dates on the chart.
http://charts3.barchart.com/ chart.asp?vol=Y&jav=adv&grid=Y&org=stk&sym=CLU7&data=H&code=BSTK&evnt=adv
Well given the current extreme high prices, we will be heading much much higher as long as we sit in Iraq. These republicans are destroying the middle class financially.
Comment by What is the War Costing YOU? — May 9, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
ThinkProgress quotes a former member of the Ku Klux Klan?????
Comment by Exley
He disavowed his KKK membership years ago. Do you have a problem with redemption?
Harry Truman was in the KKK.
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
why does robert gates hate our troops
trolls, care to comment?
Comment by Scott — May 9, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
FORMER member of the KKK - who has since repudiated those misheld beliefs. I like people wo can say they were wrong - it’s a good attribute for a representative of The People.
try again.
Comment by smafdy — May 9, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
It’s a ridiculous argument to begin with. OF COURSE THE AUTHORIZATION IS NO LONGER VALID! The Bush administration didn’t live up to the terms of the first one. They invalidated it themselves!
Comment by Bluedog49 — May 9, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
Gates better pack his bags. You can be incompetent or a crook in Chimpy’s regime, but telling the truth and standing up to the Chimp is a firing offense.
Comment by Tom3 — May 9, 2007 @ 1:06 pm
Congress, you’re LONG OVERDUE to pull the plug on this outrageous disaster.
Write your Reps EVERYDAY…
Comment by Not Canadian — May 9, 2007 @ 1:06 pm
Congress should take the next step of implementing a little bit of reality - if Bush wants his funding without a timetable, then the Iraq spending bill should include and ACTIVATION OF THE SELECTIVE SERVICE.
Watch how fast Bush Impeachment gathers support then.
Comment by DM — May 9, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
As someone who’s too old to get drafted, I fully support this measure.
Comment by toasterhead — May 9, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
Exley,
Byrd also has a 100% approval rating from the NAACP. Go figure. What’s bush’s approval rating among blakc voters? I believe it’s below 5%. After Kathrina it was 2%. So he’s trending up I guess. LOL
At least after Katrina, 0% was in the margin of error!! Outstanding.
Comment by Crump's Brother — May 9, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
sorry, i forgot to shut my sarcasm off after my question
how come everytime byrd speaks, a conservative changes the subject…robert byrd is no longer in the KKK, he has denounced and apologized many times for his participation in the group…end of story. meanwhile, GW has refused to apologize for sending thousands of young americans to their deaths
Comment by Scott — May 9, 2007 @ 1:08 pm
All Republicans hate our troops because they want to MURDERER them by sending them to a civil Iraq.
They have been sending sick,wounded, extended troops for over 5 years. This is clearly ABUSE!
REPUBLICANS are US Troop Murderers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are LIABLE for the deaths of our troops through MISMANAGED half baked war.
Comment by Republicans are KILLERS — May 9, 2007 @ 1:09 pm
civil war in IRAQ!
Comment by Republicans are KILLERS — May 9, 2007 @ 1:09 pm
the “authorization” itself was a direct violation of the constitution.
Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution mandates that the Congress shall have the power “to declare war”
The Supreme court has long held that no branch of government can transfer its power to another branch - and this is just what happened.
Congress’ guilt lies first - with this, and the President’s guilt in violating the constitution was the he should have REFUSED this unconstitutional transfer of power.
Some interesting reading on this - and the oath of soldiers to also defend the constitution:
“In Violation of the Constitution - click here”
Comment by stopthecons — May 9, 2007 @ 1:10 pm
I love this: Politicians go to a comfortable room. Somebody ask questions, somebody answers to them. The procedure has been done. The system works. OK.
Meanwhile, thousands of people die.
Comment by Juan C — May 9, 2007 @ 1:10 pm
It is the AUMF. Authorization to Use Military Force. To stop Saddam Hussein’s WMD program.
1 There never were any WMDs
2 Saddam Hussein is dead
3 We aren’t using force, we are acting as police
4 There is no war in Iraq as there is not another army to fight.
If we are going to consider al Qaeda and army, then we need to attack al Qaedastan.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — May 9, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
Zooey and Smadfy,
I am simply trying to point out the silliness of TP’s posts over the past two days criticizing Rep Ted Poe and the Washington Times for not mentioning that long-dead Nathan Bedford Forrest was in the KKK when quoting him….The late Justice Hugo Black, a liberal judicial icon, was also a former member of the KKK. Does every citation to Justice Black need to be accompanied by a reference to his membership in the KKK during his younger days? Of course not. Same with Byrd.
Like I said, I just thought TP’s devoting of two threads to that topic was silly.
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
Does anyone remember the justification the Bush administration gave for why it was allowed to build weapons systems that violated the arms control agreements we signed with the Soviets in the 70s and 80s?
They made a rather big deal about it back in 01 and 02.
Comment by joe — May 9, 2007 @ 1:13 pm
Well given the current extreme high prices, we will be heading much much higher as long as we sit in Iraq.
I’m all for Iraq withdrawal, but how does leaving lower inflation?
Comment by The Joker — May 9, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
how come everytime byrd speaks, a conservative changes the subject…
Comment by Scott — May 9, 2007 @ 1:08 pm
I think it’s because they have precious little else to bring to the fight. And their president sure isn’t doing them any favors.
But back on topic, that guy Gates is proving just a little bit more trouble for the administration than Rumsfeld was, huh?
Comment by KRank — May 9, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
Does every citation to Justice Black need to be accompanied by a reference to his membership in the KKK during his younger days? Of course not. Same with Byrd.
Comment by Exley
YOU brought it up, Exley, King of the Back Pedallers:
ThinkProgress quotes a former member of the Ku Klux Klan?????
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
the authorization no longer applies. arguablly, the objectives set out in the authorization were met around the time W proclaimed Mission Accomplished. Those objectives had been accomplished. The problem is that they wrapped it up in the GWOT and then got ’stuck’ with — most of us would at least now say brought on themselves — consequences ‘uninitended’ and ‘unimagined at the time’ due to their failure to realize what their full mission would be.
Politicially, a deauthorization would be real simple: Having found that the objectives in the Authorization have been met, the Congress hereby congradulates the the US Armed Forces and their commanders and provides X Billion to bring the boys and girls home (or at least to a theater where they might be useful, cuz, really, do we think that our army isn’t going to go somewhere other than all home?)
Comment by po — May 9, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
Exley, what is your opinion of the current Secretary of Defense? The question presented by Byrd is valid. Has this contradicted the Bush Administration’s stance? Does this show a lack of consistency in the “message”?
If Laura Bush can be forgiven about killing her boyfriend Bryd can surely be forgiven about any association with the KKK. And if he can’t be the question is still valid.
Comment by hellinabucket — May 9, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
I believe Gates’s role is one of “amelioration” between the Emperor King Bush and the people. He recognizes what he’s dealing with in Bush since he is a great friend of Papa Bush and is in there to bring some semblance of respect and stability to Bush’s rapidly-disintegrating empire.
When Gates claims the “I don’t know” factor, he’s essentially saying that it no longer applies. Any moron with a room temperature IQ can see that, in reading it verbatim, it applies only to Saddam and the government of Saddam. That’s been gone for a long time now.
I believe Hillary et al need to press forward on this premise because, clearly, it appears that Bush’s blank check for this war as well as his ability to continue to wage it is no longer grounded in law. It can easily be argued that from the time we deposed Saddam and destroyed the government of Saddam which was YEARS AGO, this war became totally illegal - and it may well have been illegal from the outset since the parameters around the vote to give the prez the power to go to war was based on lies, as we now discover. So, couldn’t it be argued in court that a war based on lies is also an “illegal” war???
We know it’s amoral but what about “illegal” from the outset?
Comment by veritas — May 9, 2007 @ 1:19 pm
Harry Truman was in the KKK.
Comment by Zooey
What?
Comment by klyde — May 9, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
Everyone is clueless in this administration.
Comment by lunacy — May 9, 2007 @ 1:22 pm
Exley, the difference is that Black and Byrd were former members that renounced their affiliations to that group. Nathan Bedford Forrest never did.
And even if you want us to stop mentioning that, we can always mention his brutal tactics during the Civil War (including letting soldiers under his command murder surrendering black Union soldiers at Fort Pillow).
Comment by Trekkie — May 9, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
If we are going to consider al Qaeda and army, then we need to attack al Qaedastan.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Al Queda is hiding at the border of afganistan and pakistan. Our “ally” Pakistan has been playing a double game, mouthing support, yet aiding and hiding Al Queda.
All during this time Kinglett Georgie has been distracted by something shiny (OIL Money) in Iraq. =P
Comment by Wayne — May 9, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
#40, Yes, Zooey, I did indeed bring it up…To illustrate TP’s double-standard, inconsistency, and silliness in devoting not one, but TWO threads to Nathan Bedford Forrest (who died 130 years ago)!
As for Harry Truman, I echo klyde? What? I haven’t read David McCullough’s bio of Truman….Is it mentioned in there?
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 1:29 pm
#44 - klyde
Here’s a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ Ku_Klux_Klan_in_United_States_politics
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 1:29 pm
If Laura Bush can be forgiven about killing her boyfriend Bryd can surely be forgiven about any association with the KKK. And if he can’t be the question is still valid.
Comment by hellinabucket
Running a stop sign when 17 and killing somebody by accident is hardly the same as voluntarily joing an organization such as the KKK.
Comment by John M — May 9, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
Senators Byrd and Clinto are both back peddling as fast as their little legs will carry them.
And yes, Exley, you are correct about TP’s fascination with the long dead General Forrest and his KKK role. It was “silly”. After all, Bobby Byrd had far more recent ties with that racist group. Such a reference to Byrd’s Klan days would complete background info.
Comment by valiant venus — May 9, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
Is Gates in charge?!!….
I read that former Secretary Rumsfeld still has an office after 6 months in the Pentagon,still giving advice and ,and still on the payroll…!
Senators should have asked Gates about that.
Comment by tarazan — May 9, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
#46, Oh, Trekkie, Believe me, I am no fan of Forrest or any member of the Confederacy. They were traitors to their country. I have never understood this romanticizing of Robert E. Lee or the Confederacy. They took up arms against their country to defend and sustain a despicable and deeply immoral economic system. I think the Confederate flag should be banned in the U.S.
Like I said, I was just trying to make a point about what I saw as a waste of time and space by TP on a silly subject (And if you look at some of the comments on those threads, there are many liberal regular bloggers here who agree with me).
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
This is what the pauls, the exleys and the other bush worshipping war mongers want our SMs to keep dying for. 25 year old woman on death row after being tortured into confessing
Iraq now has the fourth highest execution rate in the world. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.
Comment by klyde — May 9, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
#40, Yes, Zooey, I did indeed bring it up…To illustrate TP’s double-standard, inconsistency, and silliness in devoting not one, but TWO threads to Nathan Bedford Forrest (who died 130 years ago)!
Comment by Exley
TP’s thread were not dedicated to Nathan Bedford Forrest, they were dedicated to Poe’s hypocrisy and ignorance. Forrest never disavowed his membership in the KKK, as far as I know.
Can you rollerskate backwards as well?
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
“….Salisbury, however, became Truman’s bitter enemy in later years, so this version is suspect.[2] According to Hinde and Truman’s accounts, the Klan officer demanded that Truman pledge not to hire any Catholics or Jews if he was reelected. Truman refused, and demanded the return of his $10 membership fee; most of the men he had commanded in World War I had been local Irish Catholics.”
Leave it to Zooette to reference a suspicious “source”. Funny, why do Dems still hate so many Jews and Catholics?
Comment by valiant venus — May 9, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
#46 Trekkie
You are COMPLETELY wrong on the point about Forrest never renouncing the KKK…the whole time I’ve been reading these comments I was thinking of how renouncing his membership makes it “okay” for Byrd but not for Forrest.
Comment by monkeyboy — May 9, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
Because it makes him an easy target.
I have to admit, I do feel somewhat skeptical of his revalation too from time to time. Even though he was only in the KKK for a couple years and that was like fifty years ago, he did grow up in a racist family (apparently) and wrote racist things for numerous years afterward. At least his voting record is clean with respect to racial issues. I really hope he did have an honest change of heart!
Either way, he is a bit of a liability from time to time because of this.
Sad, really, because he did good work today.
Comment by Parrotlover77 — May 9, 2007 @ 1:37 pm
Zooey so the proof is the story of a bitter political enemy?
Comment by klyde — May 9, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
“According to Salisbury’s version of the story, Truman was inducted, but afterward “was never active; he was just a member who wouldn’t do anything”. Salisbury, however, became Truman’s bitter enemy in later years, so this version is suspect.”
That is pretty shaky stuff to claim that Harry Truman was a member of the KKK, Zooey. I don’t buy it.
You really shouldn’t slander one of your own, Zooey. Truman was perhaps the greatest Democratic president in American history.
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
fascinating. Gates, who is firmly a member of GHWB’s inner circle, has consistently made statements which can be interpreted as sane. Are they also signals to congress?
Comment by calguy — May 9, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
Such a reference to Byrd’s Klan days would complete background info.
Comment by valiant venus — May 9, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
Yap, yap, yap. Stinky little lapdog’s here. Somebody get a paper towel to clean up the mess.
Comment by Shane — May 9, 2007 @ 1:40 pm
Running a stop sign when 17 and killing somebody by accident is hardly the same as voluntarily joing an organization such as the KKK.
Comment by John M — May 9, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
Well Republicans have certainly been using an accident to crucify Ted Kennedy way longer than we have Laura Bush. We learned from you guys. How do YOU like it?
Comment by Shane — May 9, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
I am no expert on the Civil War (More of a Revolutionary War buff) and I certainly have no stake in defending Forrest, who, in my view was a traitor to the United States. But, it seems he did renounce his involvement with the Klan:
“In 1869, Forrest, disagreeing with its increasingly violent tactics, ordered the Klan to disband, stating that it was “being perverted from its original honorable and patriotic purposes, becoming injurious instead of subservient to the public peace.” Many of its groups in other parts of the country ignored the order and continued to function. Subsequently, Forrest distanced himself from the KKK.
Forrest’s abandonment of the Klan may not have reflected a shift in his critical attitude toward the Reconstruction policies of the Federal and Tennessee governments, but it did accompany a significant development in his views on race in his final years. Forrest came to see freed blacks as the key to economic recovery and said so frequently in public comments, increasingly to the dismay of some ex-Confederates.”
(Granted, this is from Wikipedia, some the veracity of this is open to question).
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
Shane and Zooey…you’re feeding the trolls again. :o(
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party — May 9, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
The assume that Truman’s membership in the KKK was peripheral at best you have to do the same with Forrest. More on that is in the link:
http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/ news/ stories/ 20041111/ opinion/ 51357.shtml
Comment by monkeyboy — May 9, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
#59 & #60 — Soooorry! I guess I should have said Truman JOINED the KKK. But then Exley would have come back with something about weasel words, yadda yadda….
Use the Google, there are other stories about it. Geez….
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
TP’s thread were not dedicated to Nathan Bedford Forrest, they were dedicated to Poe’s hypocrisy and ignorance. Forrest never disavowed his membership in the KKK, as far as I know.
Can you rollerskate backwards as well?
Comment by Zooey
Poe quoted somebody that was in the KKK, thinkprogress quoted somebody that was in the KKK the next day. The fact that Byrd renounced his membership for political gain is irrelevent. He has quotes like this out there: “I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side”. Thinkprogress is showing it’s hypocrisy.
Comment by John M — May 9, 2007 @ 1:47 pm
Shane and Zooey…you’re feeding the trolls again. :o(
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party
I don’t consider Exley a troll.
Has Exley received his trollie nose-ring and I didn’t get the news? :(
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 1:47 pm
Funny, why do Dems still hate so many Jews and Catholics?
Comment by valiant venus — May 9, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
Interesting, since most Jews are Democrats. The only religious group of Americans that scares us is Evangelicals. And that’s because they’re encouraging the Rapture.
Comment by Shane — May 9, 2007 @ 1:47 pm
From an Amazon.com review of a biography of Forrest:
“Following the war, he went on to found the Ku Klux Klan. Late in life, however, Forrest disavowed racial hatred and called for black political advancement. Author Jack Hurst has written the essential biography of a complex and compelling man who was arguably the Civil War’s most remarkable soldier.”
So, it appears, Forrest — much like Byrd — did indeed repudiate the Klan.
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
“I don’t consider Exley a troll.”
Why, thank you, Zooey!
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
Is Rumsfeld REALLY still on the payroll? At the same salary rate?
Comment by Joe — May 9, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
THAT MEANS THAT SINCE SADDAMS HANGING THERES NO AUTHORISATION FOR WAR ,,,,, WHY NOT BRING THIS UP IN DECEMBER 06
Comment by Tobey Tall — May 9, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
Why, thank you, Zooey!
Comment by Exley
You’re still an arrogant and self-satisfied prick.
Don’t go all cuddly on me….
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Forrest, Byrd, blah, blah, blah.
That authorization was never legitimate and it still isn’t legitimate. The Bush administration didn’t live up to the terms of the document in the first place. If they tried the same approach today, they’d be laughed out of congress. Of course the authorization should be revisited and reversed.
Comment by Bluedog49 — May 9, 2007 @ 1:51 pm
Shane and Zooey…you’re feeding the trolls again. :o(
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party — May 9, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
It’s so hard to quit. To they make some kind of patch like “Detrolladerm”?
Comment by Shane — May 9, 2007 @ 1:51 pm
Rummy doesn’t exactly need the severance pay.
Comment by Joe — May 9, 2007 @ 1:52 pm
Valiant: “Funny, why do Dems still hate so many Jews and Catholics?”
OK, you want to play? Why do Repubs hate poor people and people of color?
Comment by Bluedog49 — May 9, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
#77….LOL! No patch. You have to quit cold turkey.
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party — May 9, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
Poe quoted somebody that was in the KKK, thinkprogress quoted somebody that was in the KKK the next day. The fact that Byrd renounced his membership for political gain is irrelevent. He has quotes like this out there: “I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side”. Thinkprogress is showing it’s hypocrisy.
Comment by John M
Didnt the guy qoute a general from the traitorous south that killed many Americans, enslaved blacks, killed Lincoln, and lost the civil war, oh and he was in the KKK…
I think Byrds sins are not even close.
Comment by ggibson — May 9, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
Comment by valiant venus
Funny you harp on recient memberships.
More Republicans than democrats are supporters of the KKK/CCC/Other racist offshoots than the democrats are currently.
Maybe that is why you and Exley support them so stongly?
And to answer about Truman, yes he payed $10 for a KKK membership when he first started in politics. Historical fact.
Trent Lott has made many speeches before the members of the CCC and never has renouced the CCC. His uncle is on the executive board and claimed Lott is a member.
Comment by Wayne — May 9, 2007 @ 1:54 pm
Shane and Zooey…you’re feeding the trolls again. :o(
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party
I thought they were playing whack-a-troll very well.
Comment by Wayne — May 9, 2007 @ 1:55 pm
Wonderful! Now back to the topic at hand of the legality of this disgusting war and the ongoing illegal occupation of Iraq…
Comment by Parrotlover77 — May 9, 2007 @ 1:56 pm
# 75, Zooey:
“You’re still an arrogant and self-satisfied prick.”
And your point is???????????
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 1:56 pm
No patch. You have to quit cold turkey.
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party
Shane, we should be each other’s sponsor. We can do this thing!
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
Excuse my ignorance… What is the CCC?
Comment by Parrotlover77 — May 9, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
You have to quit cold turkey.
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party — May 9, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
Well that helps, because when I think of vv, I think cold turkey!
Comment by Shane — May 9, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
Didnt the guy qoute a general from the traitorous south that killed many Americans, enslaved blacks, killed Lincoln, and lost the civil war, oh and he was in the KKK…
I think Byrds sins are not even close.
Comment by ggibson
Byrd’s father was also in the Klan, he has a family history of racism.
Comment by John M — May 9, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
Excuse my ignorance… What is the CCC?
Comment by Parrotlover77
Council of Conservative Citizens
Comment by Wayne — May 9, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
What is the CCC?
Concerned Citizens’ Councils - racists.
Comment by barfly — May 9, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
Question– Did gates say that there is going to be “sticker shock” regarding the new DOD Budget request? And when pushed, revealed that the new budget will be equal to 1/4th of GDP!!!!!
Please- someone post answers to this insanity!
Comment by billjpa — May 9, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
“You’re still an arrogant and self-satisfied prick.”
And your point is???????????
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 1:56 pm
“You’re still an arrogant and self-satisfied
LITTLE prick.”
“And your point is???????????”
Ooops, Zooey left a word out. I fixed it for her, now do you get her point?
Comment by Shane — May 9, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
Shane, we should be each other’s sponsor. We can do this thing!
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
But the first step is we have to WANT to change. Oh I do, I do want to stop, usually.
Comment by Shane — May 9, 2007 @ 2:03 pm
Byrd’s father was also in the Klan, he has a family history of racism.
Comment by John M — May 9, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
And George Bush’s grandfather conspired with Hitler, hence the family history of Naziism.
Comment by Shane — May 9, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
Parrotlover,
Yeah, you’re right….My fault. I should have just continued ignoring the inane Forrest threads, liked I had since they first appeared…I take full responsibility for perpetuating the silliness.
As for Iraq, one thing…You can disagree with the war and the occupation, but you can’t say the occupation is “illegal” Subsequent to Saddam’s overthrow, the United Nations authorized the occupation by Coalition forces: See United Nations Security Council Resolutions 1526 and 1723.
http://www.un.org/ News/ Press/ docs/ 2006/ sc8879.doc.htm
See also:
SECURITY COUNCIL EXTENDS MANDATE OF MULTINATIONAL FORCE IN IRAQ UNTIL 31 DECEMBER 2007, UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTING RESOLUTION 1723 (2006)
“Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations,
“1. Notes that the presence of the multinational force in Iraq is at the request of the Government of Iraq and reaffirms the authorization for the multinational force as set forth in resolution 1546 (2004) and decides to extend the mandate of the multinational force as set forth in that resolution until 31 December 2007, taking into consideration the Iraqi Prime Minister’s letter dated 11 November 2006 and the United States Secretary of State’s letter dated 17 November 2006;
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
Byrd’s father was also in the Klan, he has a family history of racism.
Comment by John M
Which Sen. Byrd denounced and has championed civil rights since.
Can you say the same for Trent Lott? Bob Barr? Shall I go down the list?
Comment by Wayne — May 9, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
Byrd’s father was also in the Klan, he has a family history of racism.
Comment by John M
Which he openly repudiated. You must be a conservative Christian; meaning, you only preach forgiveness when it’s in your own political interests.
Comment by barfly — May 9, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
Byrd’s father was also in the Klan, he has a family history of racism.
Comment by John M
Did you have a point? Or did you think we give a crap about Byrds family tree?
Comment by ggibson — May 9, 2007 @ 2:08 pm
So now this site is quoting KKK members
ROTFL
Comment by Happy Guy — May 9, 2007 @ 2:08 pm
Shane, I’m not so little….I’m 5′9″. That’s average for an American male! Ya hear me??? AVERAGE!!!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=s_AEhdHUpOU
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
Shane, I’m not so little….I’m 5′9″. That’s average for an American male! Ya hear me??? AVERAGE!!!!
Comment by Exley
Heh. I’m taller than little Exley. :D
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
Good info to have. So, Bush will be going against the world come December 31, 2007.
But, the reason the war is illegal is not because of our occupation specifically. It is an illegal occupation after the fact.
The FACT remains that Bush and his buddies lied to get America and the Coalition of the Willing to attack a country for no reason.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — May 9, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
Everytime you post there is a new quote from a KKK member.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — May 9, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
Heh. I’m taller than little Exley. :D
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
Don’t rub it in…
Comment by hacker bob — May 9, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
So, that explains it. Exley has a Napoleonic little man’s sydrome.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — May 9, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Exley - Fine, you can have that one too. Substitute “illegal” in my previous post with “immoral.” That’s actually more what I meant/felt anyway, because even if all of this is “legal,” standing up to scrutiny from a legal standpoint (domestically and internationally) in future generations even, I still find it morally reprehensible what the United States has done. I pray some day that this wonderful country will once again become a beacon of hope and freedom to the international community. It’s one thing for me to love this country and know this dark point is just another “growing pain” for our young country, but it’s entirely another thing for the rest of the world to see us in the same light.
I hope this mistake is never repeated again…
Comment by Parrotlover77 — May 9, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
#102,
Zooey, that’s “average Exley.”
Check you almanac. :)
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Zooey, that’s “average Exley.”
Check you almanac. :)
Comment by Exley
Sorry Ex, in Zooey World you’re little Exley.
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
Exley: “Shane, I’m not so little….I’m 5′9″”
At our house, that qualifies as a midget (not that there’s anything wrong with that.) My daughter is taller than you, but she thinks short guys are kind of cute with their short guy “issues.”
Comment by Bluedog49 — May 9, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
Don’t rub it in…
Comment by hacker bob
Sorry Robert, I’m only rubbing it into Exley. :)
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
Byrd’s father was also in the Klan, he has a family history of racism.
Comment by John M
I don’t like that story, Uncle John…
Tell me the story about that Bad Nancy Pelosi demanding a luxury jet.
Or the story about the missing W keys from the White House computers.
Comment by Con Junior — May 9, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
“So, Bush will be going against the world come December 31, 2007.”
Unless the UN extends it, as they have done once already.
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
Sorry Robert, I’m only rubbing it into Exley. :)
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
That looked wrong,
Jeff Ganon, is that you?
Comment by hacker bob — May 9, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
we ALL NEED TO IGNORE THE TROLLS, if you see their posts, don’t read it, skip over it, don’t respond ever, they are repulsive subhumans who do not deserve a response to anything they post.
Join the IGNORE THE TROLL SCUM CLUB today.
I will join, but I sure loved putting them down.
Comment by Buck Fush — May 9, 2007 @ 2:26 pm
Gates will soon be stepping down for “health reasons”, or perhaps will be spending more time with his ancestors…
Comment by RUCerious — May 9, 2007 @ 2:36 pm
Hey bobbo! Coming to Redmond for some Share Point training any time soon???
Comment by RUCerious — May 9, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
Con Junior likes fairy tales. He likes Bush. Logical consistency. Good.
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) — May 9, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
#107, Parrotlover:
“I hope this mistake is never repeated again…
Agreed. I was driving through Brooklyn recently on the BQE (Brooklyn-Queens Expressway), which offers the most magnificent view of Lower Manhattan imaginable, and, as always, thought about what was missing from the skyline. And it depressed me to remember not only the attacks, but also how united this country and much of the world was in the aftermath of 9/11 in the belief of the necessity of fighting Al Qaeda and comparing that to how divided we are now in the wake of the Iraq War. As I have said here many times before–The Iraq War was a mistake and I was wrong to have supported it initially.
Comment by Exley — May 9, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
Comment by RUCerious — May 9, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
RUC, GREAT to see you.
Nope, they won’t let me go. I’m leaving here too soon to make it “cost effective”
Comment by hacker bob — May 9, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
That looked wrong,
Jeff Ganon, is that you?
Comment by hacker bob
I realized that after I posted the thing. Thanks for pointing it out…. :P
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
Comment by Zooey — May 9, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
thought you would appreciate that one;-)
Comment by hacker bob — May 9, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
Bobbo, thanks for the welcome back. Beat the big C and going back to work on the 21st. Till then, just reading and a little writing. Can’t even do the damn yardwork outside of watering and fertilizing the bamboo.
Geez. Take er easy! You leaving as in shedding your “lifer” status??
Comment by RUCerious — May 9, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
Comment by RUCerious — May 9, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
Nope, just relocating to Misery (Missouri).
I won’t be in I.T. there. Back to the Motor pool (as an instructor, trying to teach the kids how to stay alive)
Keep up the fight, stay strong.
Hell, the grass will still be there tomorrow.
Comment by hacker bob — May 9, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
Bobbo, will do. I.T. will miss you, btw, Ft Riley or Leavenworth??
Comment by RUCerious — May 9, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
Iraqi Union Set to Strike over Oil Law
Yes expect oil to go up in price
Iraq’s largest oil workers’ trade union will strike tomorrow, in protest at the controversial oil law currently being considered by the Iraqi parliament. The move threatens to stop all oil exports from Iraq.
The oil law proposes giving multinational companies the primary role in developing Iraq’s huge untapped oilfields, under contracts lasting up to 30 years. Oil production in Iraq, like in most of the Middle East, has been in the public sector since the 1970s. Continue reading ‘Iraqi Union Set to Strike over Oil Law’
http://www.priceofoil.org/
Comment by Tobey Tall — May 9, 2007 @ 3:04 pm
Ft. Leonard Wood
Arent the other two in Kansas?
Comment by hacker bob — May 9, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
Sorry Ex, in Zooey World you’re little Exley.
Comment by Zooey
I’m 5′8″
My current girlfriend is 6′2″ and a bit over half my age (i’m 49) .
I also weigh 245 pounds, have 24inch biceps (no fat ) and bench 400 easily.
Not many people, even those taller call me “little” =D
Comment by Wayne — May 9, 2007 @ 3:52 pm
These are in Kansas. I was stationed at Ft Riley. And never stepped foot near Leavenworth.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — May 9, 2007 @ 3:53 pm
Do they call you Wolverine?
Comment by Spudge_Boy — May 9, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
There are two things to realize:
- George H W Bush hoodwinked George W Bush into hiring Gates, as a Trojan Horse.
- Gates as former Dean of Texas A&M is an Aggie and an Aggie does not lie, cheat or steal or tolerate those who do so. These are four characteristics that separate him from the rest of the administration.
Comment by WaltTheMan — May 9, 2007 @ 3:56 pm
Is this one of those unknown knowns? Or is this a known unknown? Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party — May 9, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
I do not know how many people got that, but just wanted to say after pissing in my pants for the past 20 minutes, thanks RATFASP.
Also as far as Byrd and hiss KKK past. That ain’t nothing compared to his pedophilia with Monarch sex slaves like Cathy O’Brian (Note: accusations only, but Byrd has never challenged them.). Now before all the Repugs start Dem hating, Ms. O’Brian’s Public Enemy #1 is Big Dick Cheney and she has some choice words about Poppy Bushit.
I guess Byrd is struggling to find at least one degree on his moral compass after selling his soul to the devil for so many years. I wish someone like Ryan from Ohio would ask these kind of questions so that the credibility issue does not come up (guess we need to move him from House to Senate soon).
Comment by Gravel_kicks_butt — May 9, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
Do they call you Wolverine?
Comment by Spudge_Boy
lmao
coincidence…. That was my nickname in my squad in basic training
Comment by Wayne — May 9, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
You know, this is just like those imbeciles… “uhhh… umm. since Sadam isn’t running the government in Iraq any more… uhh… I guess that means the resolution isn’t valid… No, you see, cause it says enforce U.N. resolution against SADAM, so technically we shouldn’t be there, right. We don’t have a responsibility to the people of Iraq over and above the 2002 resolution. In fact, our presence in Iraq is hurting them more then if we had left.”
Comment by Mr. President — May 9, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
Even more of a coincidence: The name of my squad in basic training was Wolverines.
They called me Joker. I am funny in person when not talking about politics.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — May 9, 2007 @ 4:24 pm
“Valiant: “Funny, why do Dems still hate so many Jews and Catholics?”
OK, you want to play? Why do Repubs hate poor people and people of color?” Comment by Bluedog49
BluePuP - I don’t know anyone who hates poor people and minorities - except Democrats and some of their policies which reward people for not working, not going to school or having illegitimate children. Every successful person I know in business and elsewhere, (60% of whom are Repubs and the remainder various shades of liberal) is pleased to hire, promote and mentor those whose perserverance and honesty propel them to the top of their game.
Unfortunately, tooo many Progs seem to think if someone succeeds, they must have scr*wed “the little guy”. (Usually, those making such claims are in dead-end jobs and going nowhere - fast!)
But back to my assertion, The Dems have alot of solid history with the KKK - and Progs continue to bash Catholics and Jews.
Comment by valiant venus — May 9, 2007 @ 4:34 pm
“Join the IGNORE THE TROLL SCUM CLUB today. I will join, but I sure loved putting them down.” Comment by Buck Fush
We’ll sure miss you!!! There are only a small number of coarse people qualified to be a full-fledged vulgarian here at TP and you do a wonderful job!!
Tooodle……….
Comment by valiant venus — May 9, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
Gates may be one of the few honorable men in the Bush administration. He may also be a politically motivated player with a very different motivation than Bush.
The Republican party leadership has been strongly hinting that they want an Iraq withdrawal to start no later than mid 2008. They believe if a pull out isn’t started by then, nearly every Republican up for election will suffer mightily.
Many believe that if Bush’s will is allowed to go forward unchecked, the war wlil still be going full speed ahead come election time. If this is the case, the Republicans could suffer a once in a generation massacre. If the R’s thought 2006 was bad for them, 2008 would eclipse it, probably delivering the Dems veto proof majorities in both houses.
If Gates is beholden to this bigger Republican picture, it may cause him to stand up and tell truth to power towards the end of this year.
Yes, it would be very good for this nation were the SecDef to tell the truth of Iraq to the President, then admit this truth to the world. And if Gates were to do this, he may be hailed as a selfless hero. In reality, it may just mean that Gates will have put the betterment of his party over the legacy of a single man.
Comment by Michelle — May 9, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
valiant venus,
“I don’t know anyone who hates poor people and minorities - except Democrats and some of their policies which reward people for not working, not going to school or having illegitimate children.”
You’re so right here. What we should do is reward them with a life in a gutter. Especially the poor guy who has lost everything in a natural disaster. Has no clothes to look for a job in. Family is starving, and has no shelter or health care, let alone access to schools. How compassionate of you.
Corporate welfare far exceeds the amount ‘given’ to the less fortunate by our government. $16 billion dollars to the wildly successful oil industry last year? I’m sure you think spending like that is fine. Especially when we had to borrow from China to give them that welfare check. And that’s just the tip of the corporate subsidy iceberg in this corporation first, people second, society you love so much.
Yummy Kool-Aid eh Valiant?
Comment by Crump's Brother — May 9, 2007 @ 4:43 pm
I don’t know — valiant venus
Should have stopped there, the rest of what you typed made as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.
Comment by Wayne — May 9, 2007 @ 4:53 pm
We’ll sure miss you!!! There are only a small number of coarse people qualified to be a full-fledged vulgarian here at TP and you do a wonderful job!! Tooodle………. Comment by valiant venus — May 9, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
Pure projection, from the troll that makes dead baby jokes about her fictitious children - and advocates genocide, murder, torture and the end of civil rights. You’re as vulgar as they get - you miserable st*pid c*nt.
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus — May 9, 2007 @ 7:14 pm
I wonder who is operating his strings.
Comment by PENIX — May 9, 2007 @ 10:26 pm
@ Crump’s Brother: “You’re so right here. What we should do is reward them with a life in a gutter. Especially the poor guy who has lost everything in a natural disaster. Has no clothes to look for a job in. Family is starving, and has no shelter or health care, let alone access to schools. How compassionate of you.”
What happened to the mantra “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country!”
The government is not an ATM for the nation’s poor to withdraw money from every month. It IS a safety net in the case its needed (like natural disasters or unemployment insurance.. but even in the UI case, the former employer pays that. The government just ensures that it is being administered.)
The government is also not a tool for the nation’s rich to get richer. As much as I hate to see pandering to the poor like they’re some sort of handicapped person, (Don’t start about statistics, 100% of people, poor or not, have an avenue of some sort to improve themselves. Its the brave and coincidentally, successful, that pursue those avenues voraciously) watching our pandering to corporations and special interest groups is almost worse.
Our pandering to the corporations explains many of the country’s problems from illegal immigration to uncomfortable airplane seats. In a truly free market, companies close for not being able to remain relevant. In our market, companies are subsidized because they can’t remain relevant.
The paychecks need to stop on both ends of the spectrum, and the recipients both need to heed the same advice. Know yourself and seek self-improvement.
That is all. *Flame shields up*
Comment by Kalex — May 10, 2007 @ 6:02 am
In Comment#6, “Zooey” suggests that Bush Jr. should fire Gates!
Fire Gates for what?? Giving answers before a Senate committee that strayed way too close to the honest-to-God truth on Iraq? If nothing else this negative tone that Gates has dared to express certainly CLASHES with the all the pretty colors we’ve been using.
But, this could be great timing, because I hear that Wolfie may be looking for work very soon — and he has that very recent DOD experience on resume…… Hmmm, should the Wolf worry about giving 2-weeks notice to that Bank where he’s been chillin with his main girl??
Comment by Thomas — May 10, 2007 @ 8:55 am