BoH's Bridwell Talks YouTubers, New Album, Sex Clubs
"Is there no sanctity left for live performance with going to a show and seeing it with your own eyes and remembering it? Do you have to tape every second, or even just your favorite song? I understand it, but it's becoming annoying."

Photo by Stephen Lindley

Ben Bridwell is a nice dude, but like all of us, he's prone to a bad mood every now and then. Attendees at Band of Horses' July 6 show at Canes Bar & Grill in San Diego were privy to one of those moods, as Bridwell, after experiencing some frustration with the performance, proceeded to flip the bird to a woman named Rosemary who was filming the band's performance of "The Funeral".

According to various reports, he eventually apologized for the outburst (which reportedly included a rant against YouTube-ing show tapers), but by that time, Rosemary had left the club to later write a livid blog post voicing her disapproval of Bridwell's behavior.

Since things like this tend to get distorted and blown out of proportion due to the one-sided nature of internet opinion, we decided to catch up with the Band of Horses frontman himself to get his side of the story. He clearly explained his frustrations with the show in question and the YouTubing of live shows in general, but he also expressed his apologies to Rosemary and the people who attended the show in San Diego for failing to maintain the kind of professionalism he strives for as a live performer.

(Thanks to reader Randall Christopher for pointing us towards Rosemary's blog.)

And since we had him on the phone, we also talked to Ben about a bunch of other stuff, including his band's forthcoming second record (due out October 9 via Sub Pop), the effect his beard has on children, shooting hoops with Doug Martsch, and why it is that all the dudes at shady sex clubs seemed to be named [spooky voice] Jason.

Pitchfork: What's your take on what happened at the San Diego show? There were reports that you went off on this rant about YouTube and show tapers but that you later apologized. And this woman Rosemary wrote this blog post that includes a YouTube video of you flicking her off and saying, "I see you filming." I don't know if you saw her blog, but on it she said her new name for you guys is "Band-Aid on Horseshit". What do you think about all of this stuff?

Ben Bridwell: She seems like a big fan. I'm glad she could come to the show.

Pitchfork: [laughs] Yeah.

BB: Yeah, man. What happened was, beside Canes being a pretty tough venue to play for a band like us--

Pitchfork: Why is that?

BB: It's just really jock-y around the Pacific beach right there, and San Diego in itself is a bit jock-y. The vibe was just kind of weird. It just felt a little off. I know there were people there that were fans, and we had to put on a good show for them. But at the same time, half the room seemed to be filled with weekend warrior types.

You had this kind of weird mix of people, and unfortunately the venue is a bit-- the attitude of the bouncers and of the staff is not very welcoming to anybody coming in the door, whether you're playing there or coming to see a show there. I've been there myself as a show-going patron and felt that way before, before this band even started. So it's a bit of a fucking gnarly vibe there anyway, which made the show kind of tense.

But then you had all these kids up front, that seemed so disinterested in the show and didn't look up at the stage or anything. They just kind of sat there in front of the stage. Just seemed like they didn't want to be there at all, until we played "The Funeral". So all of a sudden you had these people that seemed so disinterested in the show all, somehow at the same time, pull their cameras out of their bags and start filming.

So I'm sitting there-- now they're really interested in this one song-- and they still won't make eye contact, looking through their little lenses, taping this one song for their blogs or for their fucking YouTube [accounts] or whatever, and it was just so annoying. It's like, this show is already going south, and these people that seem disinterested are only here to further their YouTube accounts or their blogs or whatever, and it just pissed me off.

It was really annoying. It was just scratching at the surface of what's happening to shows lately. Everybody's got a camera in their pocket, and they turn it on to just, I don't know, exploit us in some way or further their own projects or whatever the fuck they're doing with their websites and shit. It's become a little bit ridiculous, and it was just a bit unnerving, and [with] the situation with the show and everything, all the stars lined up and I got pissed off.

Pitchfork: Rosemary's take on it was that she was giving you guys free publicity. San Diego public television station KPBS's blog Culture Lust shared that opinion. Rosemary's argument was, "This band that I want to give free publicity-- I don't understand why they wouldn't want that." What's your take on that sentiment?

BB: I would say, if you want to do that, then go through the right avenues. If you want to do something, contact the label or something, and let's arrange something to do an interview or something. I just don't think that Sneaky Pete with the fucking camera is going to make too many friends, at least to me. I don't know where she's coming from. As far as I'm concerned, it just looks like someone trying to record a really shitty performance to post somewhere and embarrass us forever. I'm sure that she's really nice, and I feel bad that I got upset with her, but at the time it was so fucking annoying.

I don't know what to say. I admit that I was being a fucking asshole. I feel bad to single her out, but it wasn't so much her. It was mostly these other people in front of the stage that seemed so disinterested that kind of got the wheels turning, and once they all popped up with the cameras at the same time, I guess that's where it just exploded.

Pitchfork: Is it like that at most shows you guys have played recently?

BB: It seems to keep happening. You see it getting progressively worse. It's almost like the skateboarding community, where everyone's a fucking photographer now. You look at shots, and it's hard to keep the photographers out of the shot, you know? It kind of seems like the same thing with indie rock; everyone's got a fucking camera in their hand and, I don't know, is there no sanctity left for live performance with going to a show and seeing it with your own eyes and remembering it? Do you have to tape every second, or even just your favorite song? I understand it, but it's becoming annoying.

Pitchfork: Most of the YouTube clips you see of bands performing live aren't even very good quality.

BB: It's terrible! You can never hear anything!

Pitchfork: Maybe you guys should just pull a Fugazi, stop the shows when that happens and tell people to quit it.

BB: I see it as a bit of a problem. I'm not sure how other bands feel about it, but at the same time, I don't want to be a baby here and start getting all preachy on people. I understand that fans want to take a piece of the show home with them, so I understand both sides of the argument.

Pitchfork: It seems like you were more aware of the audience than I would have imagined a band on stage being, even their facial expressions. Did you notice any of the people who seemed to be into it the whole time get annoyed at these people in front, trying to angle their way around these cameras and shit like that?

BB: You know, I didn't notice. And sometimes I won't notice the crowd-- really, you just see them as one big mass instead of singular people. For some reason, this venue had me hyper-aware of everyone that was in attendance, mostly because of the TVs that were still on and the house lights still being on. So I could see what was going on, maybe too much. But I'm not sure if I noticed anyone also being annoyed, because I was so fucking bonkers about being pissed at the people that were doing it.

Pitchfork: Do you think that you guys will play Canes again?

BB: You know, I'd like to. I'd hate to single them out, because they provide a different show experience in San Diego. San Diego doesn't have many options. I don't want to say that we'll never be back there. I don't want to burn any bridges with those people. San Diego's just a hard town to play. The Casbah might be too small for certain bands. The Casbah might also be too big for certain bands, but Canes is a step up from that, and I understand that as far as the business side [goes], you've got to pack as many people into a room [as you can], but I would be more privy to doing multiple nights somewhere else, at least next time, and seeing how it goes. I don't want to blame it all on Canes. It's not their fault, you know?

Pitchfork: Let's talk about the new record. It's a spoken-word record.

BB: Yeah! Spoken-word. There's a couple drums on there, a couple of floor tom hits. Actually, it's done and getting mastered next week, so we're just wrapping up all the final stuff for it, really.

Pitchfork: It's coming out in October, right?

BB: October 9 it seems, yeah.

Pitchfork: The last record came out in the spring last year, right?

BB: Yeah.

Pitchfork: Do you think that this record fits a fall release date a little more, because Everything All the Time was pretty perfectly timed. In the summer, it was like, "Awesome, now we get to listen to Band of Horses all the time."

BB: Yeah, and I was really happy with that. I actually thought that that record would have been a good fall release as well. It's kind of hard for labels to take a chance on fall releases because you're going up against Christmas stuff, but it seems that Sub Pop was pretty sure that they could do a good job with it, even for being so close to the break. But I think there are a lot more mellow tracks on this one than the first one. I think that's good for a winter kind of style and the melancholy once the weather settles in. I think it will fit quite nicely, actually.

Pitchfork: And in an NME interview, you said [producer] Phil Ek was calling it more of a Southeast record to Everything's Northwest. What's the difference there?

BB: There's just a little bit more-- I guess the first record had some kind of country-ish leanings and things [but] I think there's maybe a little bit more of [that] feeling on it, a little more down-home, I guess, and not so much indie rock. At the same time, I hate for that to become the fucking mantra [of this record] now. Phil just said that in passing, and I have no idea what it sounds like. I can't listen to it. I have no perspective. I'm not sure what it sounds like.

Pitchfork: When you talked to Ashford Tucker in January, you said you did titling and song naming stuff at the very last minute for Everything. Is that still the case? Do you have titles for anything?

BB: I have titles for some of the songs. I'm trying to wrap up the album title within the next week.

Pitchfork: Is it still going to be called Pastor of Muppets?

BB: I wish, man. That'd be fucking great. I wish we could, but of course we'll get something that doesn't seem like we're making a joke out of it. I don't think Sub Pop would be too stoked if [we did that]. We also considered calling it [affects spooky voice] Jason.

Pitchfork: Jason?

BB: Yeah.

Pitchfork: Like Friday the 13th?

BB: You know, like a person would name a dog after another person.

Pitchfork: Okay.

BB: We call it Jason, you know? I ran that one by Sub Pop and got no replies. I don't think we can name it after a dog named after a person.

Pitchfork: Do you actually have a dog named Jason?

BB: Nope. If I did have a dog though, I'd like to name him [spooky voice] Jason.

Pitchfork: Why the sort of eerie voice attached to it?

BB: Well, we kind of have a stupid inside joke where we talked about if you were in some random dark sex club and you got a really firm grip on your shoulder, you know, from behind, and you ask yourself, [spooky voice] "Jason?" And then you turn around, and you're like, "That's Jason," you know? And then you go and have sex with Jason.

Pitchfork: That's a little bit random, but I guess I can see that.

BB: It sounds like, maybe you whisper, [spooky voice] "Jason..."

Pitchfork: Right.

BB: You know? There you go.

Pitchfork: Is that what happened when Band of Horses started really blowing up, you had to start contemplating how you'd react in sex clubs?

BB: Yeah. We had to get really creepy and starting going to sex clubs and hook up with random guys.

Pitchfork: Right.

BB: This interview's going to stick with me for a long time.

Pitchfork: So the song titles we know are, "Ode to the LRC", "No One's Gonna Love You", and "Window Blues". Are those still the only ones you have? Have those changed at all?

BB: Those are still the same. I have ideas about the other ones, but I'm not quite ready to set them free yet. I don't want them to leave the nest.

Pitchfork: You guys have a tour with Modest Mouse coming up, right?

BB: Yeah. It starts at the beginning of August, I guess.

Pitchfork: And Robin Perringer from Carissa's Wierd was in Modest Mouse for a while.

BB: Yes, he was.

Pitchfork: Is that how you guys hooked up with them?

BB: Actually, I met Robin in Seattle. He was the original drummer for Carissa's Wierd, which I later replaced him as when he joined Modest Mouse, and around that time when he was in Carissa's Wierd we got to know each other really well, and he went to Modest Mouse and later played with Elliott Smith and numerous people. He's done a lot of tech work for Scissor Sisters and Pixies and the Thrills and stuff like that. I hate to speak for him, but after the whole Elliott thing, he kind of decided to take a break from playing and do the tech stuff. And then, I had talked to him for a while about joining up with us and playing some extra guitar and eventually convinced him to come and get back into playing music, so he's been with us for a couple tours now and enjoying himself and doing a great job, and we couldn't be more happy with the band right now.

Pitchfork: Did you know any of the Modest Mouse guys before?

BB: I actually slept in Isaac [Brock]'s van when I was homeless in Seattle for a while. I've hung out with Isaac quite a lot. I don't know [drummer] Jeremiah [Green] and [bassist] Eric [Judy] that well, but I've met Joe Plummer, the other drummer. I've known him for a little while. So we've all met each other, and we've played festivals together and got to hang out. They're great dudes.

Pitchfork: Are you planning on getting any tips from them on the road, like about how to write a "Float On" or anything like that?

BB: I think any tips that we can learn from them would just be to see them in the size of venues we're playing with them. Seeing how they command an audience that large is definitely something you can learn from and aspire to. I think it will be interesting to see the way they adapt to those kinds of venues. I know they are used to doing them, but things like playing Red Rocks-- I'd love to see what that looks like.

Pitchfork: It seems like Red Rocks would really fit you guys' sound. Real open.

BB: I guess we'll find out, won't we? It's the first one on the tour, and it could go fucking completely downhill.

Pitchfork: What a crazy first date of a tour, you know?

BB: I know, but we learn things on every tour because we progress as a band, so I think it will be an awesome learning experience. Whether you learn from the other bands you're with or from the crowds themselves, I think every show for us seems to be a bit of a learning experience. Like after this Canes thing, I better shut my fucking mouth.

Pitchfork: Do you find it hard to remember stuff like that? Are you just talking to yourself all the time saying, "Remember, don't do stuff like this," or "This works really well in a crowd of this size"?

BB: The thing is, as far as just controlling your emotions during a show, whether the sound is just garbage or the crowd's not into it or whatever, you've just got to keep rolling. You can't let your emotions get the best of you because then the performance will suffer even more. I keep trying to learn that lesson every show, if something's going wrong. It's been a long time since that's gotten the better of me. It's an important lesson to learn again. You can't show your ass on stage while other people are trying to enjoy themselves, and it leaves a bad taste in people's mouths.

Pitchfork: There's a picture on you guys' MySpace page of you playing basketball against Doug Martsch from Built to Spill.

BB: Oh, I haven't seen that one yet.

Pitchfork: Do you remember playing against him?

BB: Yeah, that was just a month or so ago in England.

Pitchfork: Was it at ATP vs. the Fans?

BB: Yeah, exactly.

Pitchfork: How did that come about? Did you guys know each other beforehand?

BB: That was actually the first time I met Doug, I think. I've known Scott [Plouf], the drummer, for a while, and Jim [Roth], the other guitarist-- he provided a lot of our amps for the first and now second records. So we've been in close contact with Jim for a while. It just happened that they were there at the right time, and we just shot around a little bit, but Doug's fucking insane. There's no way I'd even try to play him; we were just shooting around a little bit. He's really good at it.

Pitchfork: I know Built to Spill have that basketball videogame on their website, "Jams!" But he's really good?

BB: Oh yeah. He'll hit a 15-footer like real quick. He has a great outside shot. He looks like he's really tapped into how to play basketball.

Pitchfork: Another thing you mentioned when you talked to Ashford, was that you liked sports because any excuse to sit around and drink a beer is worth it. Have you had much time to sit around and relax in the last couple months?

BB: Yeah. We just got home yesterday, after a month and a half almost of being gone. We were finishing up the record and mixing it and then started the tour, and right before that we did a pretty good Europe tour. We're playing New York next weekend; then the tour starts like a week after that, so we're out for another month or more. Then it's time to do the press for the album, and then the album comes out and everything starts over again. For another year and a half we'll have to go to work, which is good, but at the same time, it's great to be home. I miss it here. It's nice to be able to relax today or try to relax a little bit and not deal with Band of Horses.

Pitchfork: We recently posted photos of a New York City benefit show you performed at with Zach Galifianakis, and your beard is out of control. Is there a goal you're trying to meet? Are you just going to keep growing it out?

BB: You know, it was a project beard to begin with. I was going to cut it once the record was in the can. I told myself I'd cut it. But then I decided to just trim it a little bit. It was actually a bit gnarlier-looking before those pictures were taken. This is actually pretty tame for me. I'd like to see if I could use it to keep my face warm, at least through winter. It's really fucking hot here, though, trust me. I'm pacing through my backyard sweating my balls off.

Pitchfork: The beard could be sort of a Southern thing too.

BB: I guess, but no one down here has beards right now because it's hotter than shit with all that on your face, you know what I mean?

Pitchfork: How are people reacting to your beard?

BB: Man, you should see. I just went to this coffee shop to do some internet-ing outside, and the amount of kids that stop and stare and get frightened is out of control. I'm scaring the shit of kids, literally, every time I step out of the house.

Pitchfork: Do you just apologize to their parents, or what do you do?

BB: I just say, [higher pitched voice] "Hi, how you doing?" I'm just sitting here doing my thing; I don't need to be judged by a fucking four-year-old, you know? "Fuck you, kid! You're not so cute yourself; you're ugly, so fuck you."

Pitchfork: Another thing you told Ashford was that you didn't think "The Funeral" was going to be the first single from the first record. You thought it was "Wicked Gil", right?

BB: That's right. This was also our first record. I didn't know what the hell was going to happen with our band or anything. I just figured that would be the best for radio, for some reason. It just seems more poppy than the rest of the album, so being naïve a little bit I just figured-- "The Funeral" was the last song to finish. It was kind of painful. Painful in the way that it was hard to record. I didn't care for that one as much.

Pitchfork: With the reaction it's gotten from people, like the people at shows who only perk up when you play that song, does it sort of hammer that home? Or do you like it now?

BB: I'm actually starting to enjoy it more now. Because we've had to play it always, whether it was "Letterman" or I knew we could not skip that song on the list. At the same time, if those people come for that one song, at least we're connecting with more people at the time of the performance. It also feels good to have people like that song so much, and I'm grateful for that song catapulting us to where we are right now.

Same exact thing happened with this record. I didn't want to record "No One's Gonna Love You", and that seems to be the first single for the new record. That's what we're thinking, and I knew it while we were recording it, still [I thought] "This better not be the fucking single" while I was playing the song. "If I have to play this song on TV, I'm going to shit myself." Sure enough, I talked to some people with the label, and they're like, "We're kind of leaning towards that one." Of course, you know? It may be a curse if I don't feel that way about it.

Pitchfork: Why is it that you hate these songs? I mean, I know you're exaggerating when you say you hate them, but what is it about them that makes them such tooth-pulling recording experiences?

BB: Well, the new one, it's the oldest of the new songs, and it was written in a different time of the band and a different time in my personal life, and it doesn't really pertain to my current situation. I'll just say it that way. It's just old news. "Why do I want to record this song? It's old news. I want to move on and get past that." So at the same time, the record has some of the old aftertaste of the old band. It kind of felt like taking two steps back instead of one step forward.

Pitchfork: Does that make these songs harder to perform live?

BB: I guess I put them in different perspectives as to where I am at that point. I still believe in all the songs and really enjoy them. If anything, I try to relate them to where I am now, and I'll do the same thing with "No One". I'll try to feel as much emotion as I can when I'm performing to make the songs really come across and try to make somebody in the audience feel an emotional connection there.

Pitchfork: Well, so many of your songs seem to be making some sort of triumph out of personal chaos or really depressing shit.

BB: I mean, in some way. We also have our try-to-make-people-happy numbers, you know?

Pitchfork: Definitely, it's not a bad thing, and I think even songs like "The Funeral" are make-people-happy numbers, you know?

BB: Absolutely. There are definitely two colliding forces with a lot of the songs, where it is the darkness and the light. You'll see that even more on the next record.

Pitchfork: Is that the way you deal with personal trauma in general, just try to make the most out of it?

BB: I'm not in any way an unfortunate person. I'm not a tortured artist, and I'm not a depressed person. Things happen in life, and you deal with them, you know? You've always got to have the resolve in the problem. It makes perfect sense to look on the bright side, always, and then also to mix up some of the stories with different sides of the story and different themes within the song so it doesn't become too streamlined or too autobiographical.

Pitchfork: Finally, I'm wondering if you guys would consider changing the band's name to Band-Aid on Horseshit for this record, per Rosemary's recommendation? Or maybe you could start a side project with that name?

BB: Maybe a side project. We also go by Bag of Choices. I prefer Bag of Choices if possible. But if we have to be Band-Aid on Horseshit then I guess we'll just have to be.

Pitchfork: Or maybe Jason?

BB: "Oh, Jason. I love what you do to me Jason, don't stop."

As a last sound-off, I apologize to that crowd at Canes that night. I just let it get the best of me, and you got to roll with the punches sometimes, even if you're not having the best time. At least fucking pretend. People pay their hard-earned money, so don't be a dickhead. So I feel bad, and I'm sorry.

Pitchfork: Is there anything else that you want to get off your chest?

BB: College football starts in about fifty days.

Pitchfork: You're not soaking up the baseball season?

BB: I am, actually. We haven't been near it. When we were in Seattle for those three weeks I got to watch some Mariners games.

Pitchfork: You actually got to go to Safeco Field?

BB: No, I just watched them on TV when I could.

Pitchfork: Okay. Man, Safeco's great. It's one of my favorite parks.

BB: I love my Safeco. [The Mariners] are actually making a good push in the [AL] West. I don't know why [former Mariners manager Mike] Hargrove had to quit on us while we're doing so good finally, but I'm excited to see how that pans out. I finally subscribed to the internet MLB thing [MLB.tv --Ed.], so I can watch them from home.

Pitchfork: Isn't that great?

BB: It's great, but I did it in Seattle, and they black it out if you're in the city, so I haven't had a chance to actually watch them since. Actually, October is one of my favorite months of the year because you have your college football and your baseball at the same time. In October, I can't wait. Right around the corner. It's the ultimate time to read the sports page.

Pitchfork: So the M's are your team?

BB: Yeah, the Mariners are my favorite pro baseball team, and the Georgia Bulldogs are my favorite college football.

Pitchfork: So you're not an Atlanta Braves fan?

BB: No, I grew up with the Braves, but after Gary Sheffield, John Rocker, and that kind of shit, I became a little disinterested in that team's attitude.

Pitchfork: I'm a Reds fan, and there have been some rumors of Ken Griffey, Jr. going back to the Mariners, which I'd be a little distressed about.

BB: We would gladly have him. I'd love to see him retire-- I know he wanted to go and be with his dad's home team, but we love us some Griffey in Seattle. We would love to have even one more season, to see that swing in Seattle once again. People are just in love with him in Seattle.

Pitchfork: Do you have a favorite Mariner right now?

BB: Well, I love Ichiro's production, and I love his classiness at the plate and in the field. But I also really like Kenji Johjima, our new catcher. I also think that Yuniesky Betancourt, our shortstop, is potentially one of the greatest shortstops in the game. He's young, but I think he's got a chance to be at least, like, Carlos Guillen. Come on. Maybe Omar Vizquel. Don't know yet, but we'll see.

Band of Horses dates:

07-22 Brooklyn, NY - McCarren Park Pool #
08-01 Morrison, CO - Red Rocks Amphitheatre *^
08-03 Kansas City, MO - City Market *^
08-04 Iowa City, IA - Picador ^
08-06 Pittsburgh, PA - Diesel Club Lounge ^
08-07 Washington, DC - 9:30 Club ^
08-09 South Burlington, VT - Higher Ground ^
08-10 Montreal, Quebec - La Sala Rossa ^
08-11 Toronto, Ontario - Lee's Palace ^
08-12 Buffalo, NY - Traif Music Hall ^
08-13 Detroit, MI - Magic Stick ^
08-15 Columbus, OH - LC Amphitheater *^
08-16 Cleveland, OH - Warner Cable Amphitheatre *^
08-17 Northampton, MA - Pines Theatre *^
08-18 Mansfield, MA - Tweeter Center (Download Festival)
08-19 Philadelphia, PA - Festival Pier * ^!
08-21 Louisville, KY - Lousville Gardens * ^
08-22 Nashville, TN - Ryman Auditorium *^
09-02 Chicago, IL - Charter One Pavilion (Download Festival)

# with Annuals, Oxford Collapse
* with Modest Mouse
^ with Love as Laughter
! with Clipse

Video: Band of Horses: Ode to the LRC [Live, from the forthcoming second Band of Horses LP]